Still in too. In my hall there's one bro I strongly feel is an undercover agent :) . I feel so due to the nature of his comments, how he presents his TMS parts and how quick he is at picking on jw behavior.
Tempest in a Teacup
JoinedPosts by Tempest in a Teacup
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58
A Question for Underground Apostates, How Many Are There?
by Village Idiot inwhen i first came to this forum i was of the belief that those of us who were still in due to family reasons were few in numbers perhaps one in a thousand in the jws.
soon i came to the realization that there were many more.
we have dozens of posters here who are mentally out but still in.
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Have you met people in the "world" who are more commited to their christian believes than JWs?
by nevaagain ini met a coworker at my work who was even more commited to his religion then almost anybody i had seen in the jw mids yet.
whenever we went for lunch, he would do a little prayer first, he didnt care if anybody would take notice of him.
he does not curse, never!
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Tempest in a Teacup
I do. I must say it's a cultural thing in my country. People take religion really seriously, and I mean that they LIVE their religions with every breath.
Over here jws are just one of many...
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The Watchtower organization's crime against humanity
by TerryWalstrom inwho are the real heroes of society?.
are they not the people who are doctors and nurses and teachers and firemen and policemen and counselors and humanitarians?.
because of the watchtower organization, we are missing generations of those kinds of heroes who will not exist (but could have) because jehovah's witnesses destroyed them by convincing millions of it's members those professions are meaningless and unimportant for them to pursue.
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Tempest in a Teacup
...deliberately ignorant people of no use to themselves, their families or mankind.
What is such a person capable of except Kamikaze ethics?Words like these keep me going. Sometimes you live a certain reality but you sort of re-discover it when it's translated into appropriate words.
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JWs and the making of many books
by Magnum inecc 12:12 - "to the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion [to them] is wearisome to the flesh.".
i just never could keep up with all the jw reading material.
as a zealous jw, it was my desire to read every word published by the org, but i just couldn't do it.
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Tempest in a Teacup
Ecc 12:12 - "To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion [to them] is wearisome to the flesh."
Throughout last year, this verse was routinely used to berate higher education. I'd just think to myself: LOOK WHO IS TALKING?!!?
There was this witness I used to discuss the stupid education policy with, who called me after an assembly, excited to discover a bible verse 'supporting the GB stand on education' and quoted it.
I asked her if it was logic that a non-stop-book-oozing-organization was even allowed to use that verse against anyone else, and that THE WT SHOULD BE THE LAST ENTITY ON EARTH TO QUOTE THAT VERSE.
Because even big book publishing companies and newspapers do not forcefully impose on their readership to continually "study" the material they publish the way the WT does.
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Not Seating at the Same Place in All Meetings.
by Tempest in a Teacup ini haven't heard this one in a while but it has been on my mind lately.
maybe it's because i'm noticing that these days people at the kh are going the extra mile to vary their seating places in all meetings.. having skipped meetings for a few weeks, i'm wondering if there has been a talk/article about that recently.
that's one of the most laughable rules they made and i never felt bound by it.
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Tempest in a Teacup
There was a Thursday meeting then and the CO picked the same seats that night and that couple moved them again.
I'd give everything to be in that KH at that moment! Pointless meanness jw style: "I hurt you just because I can."
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Not Seating at the Same Place in All Meetings.
by Tempest in a Teacup ini haven't heard this one in a while but it has been on my mind lately.
maybe it's because i'm noticing that these days people at the kh are going the extra mile to vary their seating places in all meetings.. having skipped meetings for a few weeks, i'm wondering if there has been a talk/article about that recently.
that's one of the most laughable rules they made and i never felt bound by it.
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Tempest in a Teacup
I haven't heard this one in a while but it has been on my mind lately. Maybe it's because I'm noticing that these days people at the KH are going the extra mile to vary their seating places in all meetings.
Having skipped meetings for a few weeks, I'm wondering if there has been a talk/article about that recently. That's one of the most laughable rules they made and I never felt bound by it. I mean....give me a break! I can socialise before and after the meeting, no matter where I sat.
Really want to know...has that rule ever helped someone, like making them to get closer to people they'd never have been close to? What in your opinion is the real motivation behind that pointless rule?
I'm thinking...maybe just a way to add some sort of variety to an otherwise boring, tucked-in-stone routine at meetings.
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How many JWs really believe the end will come "soon"?
by BU2B inthis topic has been on my mind lately.
i have been looking around at jws and wondering how many truly believe the end is as near as they are told.
from my personal experience, i know that my parents fully believe the end is imminent and may come any time now.
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Tempest in a Teacup
How many JWs really believe the end will come "soon"?
This question is a hard one because to answer it one should be able to read people's heart.
Apart from the truly sincere ones, the vast majority of jws love to recite formulas to show how "spiritual" they are. Which makes it difficult to determine this really.
What I know for sure is that OUT OF BOTH GROUPS no one still stacks their problems because "A is around the corner" to come and solve it for them. Seems like everyone's making plans for their future...just in case.
But of course I can only talk about jws around me.
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For God So Loves the Western World...
by Tempest in a Teacup in...that only people from those countries can lead 'his organization'.. a few years ago, one conversation stopper people would often bring up to jws in my country is: 'you guys are an american religion'.
the standard answer we were formatted to give to shoot that down was that "god does not favor any nationality over others.
however some countries do possess some advantages needed for the advancement of the divine work.
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Tempest in a Teacup
Why should we suggest anything to the Watchtower/Governing Body that will improve them?
V.I: Because their typical American stand on most things is making life unbearable for millions living elsewhere. Getting them to reconsider these things will make such people feel less guilty (about not being able to comply with the society's lofty requirements simply because of their location).
SAHS: on point! I didn't include this aspect because they misapply the scriptures to justify their stand on this. But I wonder if there's any scripture explaining or foresaying that the org of God should be in the US?
It won't be a good idea to reveal my country for now. But I can assure you these things are commonplace in most developping countries accross a few continents.
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For God So Loves the Western World...
by Tempest in a Teacup in...that only people from those countries can lead 'his organization'.. a few years ago, one conversation stopper people would often bring up to jws in my country is: 'you guys are an american religion'.
the standard answer we were formatted to give to shoot that down was that "god does not favor any nationality over others.
however some countries do possess some advantages needed for the advancement of the divine work.
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Tempest in a Teacup
...that only people from those countries can lead 'his organization'.
A few years ago, one conversation stopper people would often bring up to jws in my country is: 'you guys are an American religion'. The standard answer we were formatted to give to shoot that down was that "God does not favor any nationality over others. However some countries do possess some advantages needed for the advancement of the divine work. The USA present assets such as their freedom of speech, economic and political stability. Those and other reasons explain why our religion is based in the USA even though it's a wordwide brotherhood."
That's such a lie! The religion isn't just based in the US. The vast majority of its leaders (or whatever they call themselves) are Americans, or are at least people from Europe, North America and other western countries.
This is a religion of about 8 million people accross this planet, present in almost all countries and all continents and islands. And God hasn't found anyone else, apart from people from a handful rich western countries to direct 'his organization!'. No one from Vanuatu, Taiwan, Madagascar, Yemen, Mongolia, etc, is worthy of being part of the small group of people who make decisions affecting the lives of ALL the people living in these parts of the planet and many more? Wow
They write to the congregations throughout the world, pretending to follow the model of Paul. Paul did not only write letters to those congregations. He visited the places personnally and spent some time with the people in there; so he knew their realities and gave advice matching their needs, or at least their realities. I guess it would have been a whole lot different if Paul was born in Rome, grew up in Rome, knew personnally only about Roman realities and culture, and had taken a comfortable office in Rome and started spewing things out the way the GB does.
Spewing things about how these christians were to live, work amd worship, solely taking as reference his Roman background, culture and experience.
I live in a country where the mere notion of 'part time job' is non existent. How do you want people to pioneer and go use something that does not exist to take care of themselves?
where I leave, people do their own cleaning, errand running etc. So there's absolutely nothing like petty jobs to do to sustain oneself. You have to get fairly trained, merely so that you can just stand the chance to apply for a steady full time job.
where I live, we have to pay for EVERY SINGLE THING! For your kids' education ( from kindergarten to high school isn't free), you have to pay fees, even in the public schools. If you're sick and dying, there's no effective health care system to help you. You stay in your house and die if your family and friends can't hlep you with money. Pregnant women are turned away from hospitals if they can't pay to deliver their babies! If they came in too late, and the hospital staff helps them deliver, the mother and baby are kept in the hospital, sometimes for years, waiting for relatives/charitable souls to come, pay the childbirth fees and 'free them'.
There is no organized social support system to help out the needy ones. No social accomodations, no food stamps, no refuge for the homeless where they can eat... NOTHING!!! The only option everyone around here has...is to WORK.
Jws here like to recite paragraphs parroting the GB's stand on education and 'materialism'. But deep down, they know that's just theory for us. Our realities are just too different.
Here 3 suggestions to alleviate this problem...in case any of the 'top leaders' is reading:
1. The GB should consider the diversity factor when voting new members in...I'm sure if the whole thing was truly divinely inspired, Jah wouldn't have restricted so much the geographical locations to pick honest hearted folks from.
2. GB members should consider rotating in countries, staying for 3-5 years on a different continent. Unless the antenna receiving the holy spirit can only work in Brooklyn. When living in different countries, they shouldn't live in bethel/ missionary homes, because these do not reflect the reality of the places. They should live life as the local people are living it...everyday.
Then and only then can they say thing which begin to make sense for some of us.
3. In case they refuse to do these things, jws living outside the western world should consider changing religions. Just too bad no one else is promising us the magic paradise.
For the meantime, poor us will strive to continue worshipping God with people whose heads are in the clouds, their bodies in the US, but whose mouths are in every business of ours.
T in a T
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New Apostate: Tempest in a Teacup
by Tempest in a Teacup infirst post on here.
i've been lurking for 3-4 years and i mean i've been a mega lurker, doing marathon reading sessions for months or weeks.. sometimes i proceed by researching specific topics, or posters; other times just reading current discussions.
i'm particularly fond of "old" post, i.e 10-12-15 years ago.. i have laughed, smiled, got mad, cried etc, just reading some threads here.. as you can see i suffer from some kind of "accute lurkitis".
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Tempest in a Teacup
I want to thank each and everyone of you for the warm welcome. You are all really making me feel at home. Why oh why did I wait so long to join in? Lol
Since this was just an introduction, there are many things I did not talk about. I'll certainly have the chance to go deeper into some topics, but for the meantime here are a few clarifications to some issues raised by some of the posters:
"Why don't you establish friendships with 'worldly' people?
I do have non jw friends. I have had several best friends in my life. Out of 5 very best friends I've had, 4 are non jws. Because of problems inherent to close friendships with jws (broadcasting 'secrets' when the friendship stops for example) I always have felt safer with non jws and I still have strong ties with some of my non jw lifetime friends. But really, since I grew up in this religion, many people who gravitate around me are jws. In other words I take the best of both worlds. It's just that jws outnumber non jws in my life.
Injustice in the congregations:
To say that I have been a victim of this is an understatement. Due to my family situation, I have always belonged to the 'unprotected! Hit them as you wish' class in the congos. So I'm not still in because I've not been a victim of this, or because I carry jws in my heart.
In fact I started taking my (emotional) distance from the congs 10 years ago the day I, with tranquility and huge smiles, locked horns with a C.O over a deliberate and well planned character assassination talk he gave about me. Moved by the boldness that adversity creates in witnesses , I asked to see him in private. I explained to him the series of coincidences and misunderstandings which made a simple issue to eventually get out of hand. He couldn't hide his shock and shame and resorted to throwing 3 solid lies at my face to prove that the talk wasn't about me.
Before then, I was the whole-hearted jw who thought such things only happen to the 'rebellious' ones, and never in a million years thought I'd ever find myself in such a situation. Something was destroyed in me that day that I never recovered. It also marked the beginning of a long string of injustice, bullying, unfairness followed by horn-lockings between me and the 'elite': elders, elders' kids, elders' entire family, and ministerial servants. Because I had had enough of the sneaky bullying.
I've been okay for some time now because I have established my reputation as the 'unprotected! But you better stay off'. I would say that I took, and still take this cool because I know that I represent some sort of scar defacing the overall picture perfect congs of obedient lambs. My mere existence in the congs itches them and this is a pleasure I have become addicted to. So I've got no problem with that either.
About me not leaving the jws:I'm aware of the fact that many here will find it difficult to understand this. If you have not experienced life where I live, take my word for it: try as you would, there's absolutely no way you can figure out what it is to live without pertaining to any religious group here.People's religion here is part of their identity. I find it difficult to explain because it's something that has to be lived. Your religion is part of your credentials, basically. People with no religion are looked down upon and are seen as outcasts. To say the least.
Mind you, I will not even enjoy any social life if I don't provide that 'ID'. Here for example, the slightest professional meeting or social gathering will open and close with a prayer (yes, we live on this planet).
You see, for me, missing meetings means automatically suscribing to worship places around my house blasting their music and sermons in my ears throughout the day. I've even been blessed with several visits of well meaning christians who, in order to save the lost souls who stay at home on sundays, go house to house, laying hands on 'non church going sinners' asking you to just 'accept the Christ as your lord and personal saviour'. Those days, I know that I get more than I bargained for by staying at home. Lol.
I have thought of settling elsewhere before, but quickly changed my mind. I will never ever go to such an extent because of religion. I have no problem with God; religion is the weird one and I've grown in this context so I have become like a turtle: I am my own home, and I've grown a carapace which separates me from anything which doesn't add to my happiness, jw or not. I don't think I'm an exceptional case in my world.
As for the jws, remaining in their midst doesn't seem so much of a bother for me. Ever since I started thinking, I have had my own 'religion within the religion' and this has become a second nature for me. I have developped an infinite tolerance for some otherwise annoying things and jw religion is one of them.
Do I think that jws have the truth?
Short answer: No.
Long answer: Honestly, I think deep down, the mental representation that I have always had of jws is that of a 'truth seeking' religion, rather than a 'truth possessing' one. They use the latter as label, but because of the doctrinal changes and certain utterances they make, I have never seen them as anything more than sweating and panting truth chasers. What percentage of the chasing and pursuing is really sincere I may never know. Nor am I interested in ever knowing. I've got nothing to gain knowing that. You can't kill a dead body.
Am I happy with my life?
I am, honestly. As I said in my OP, this forum has helped me a great deal to reach this state. I don't think I can ever be grateful enough to all of you who, even unknowingly, have contributed to this.
T in a T